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Why do you call yourself a Christian? And why are you promoting
accupuncture? See the article "New
Age Paranoia" from The Christian Research Institute
Nathan
Use Primary Historical Sources To Understand Chinese Medicine
Nathan,
I've seen that article. And I
love the Bible Answer man radio show, but that article was written
by someone who has relied secondary sources on what Chinese medicine
is. That's not a scholarly or responsible way to approach the
topic of Chinese medicine. The article you refer to is actually
a great response to someone who does not represent authentic Chinese
medicine.
Some representative basic books on Chinese medicine are:
- Fundamentals of Chinese Medicine, by Wiseman &
Ellis
- Medicine in China, by Paul Unschuld
I call myself a Christian because I have given my life to Jesus
Christ. He is my Lord and Savior. He is the Son of the Living
God. He gave his life for our sins. He died, was buried, and rose
again to sit at the right hand of God, our Father. I can say this
only in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Educate yourself. Some Christians still believe the earth is
flat, so to speak. By the way, you misspelled acupuncture.
B
I am not stupid sir. I have the equivalent of a doctor's degree
in theology, and while in a blackslidden state I was a parapsychologist.
I was vice-president of (organization name deleted for anonymity)
and friends and colleague with the two foremost parapsychologists
in the world. Dr. (deleted for anonymity)was going to have my
book published before God brought me back to himself dramatically
I was heavily into the new age and the occult. I have seen
things that hopefully you never will. I have seen demonic healings
and walked arm in armn with fully materialized demons, and now,
as a restore born-again, spirit-filled ordained minister of the
Gospel I have seen countless Christians led into the new age and
occult by seemingly innocent excursions into accupuncture, healing
touch, and "energy" healing.
The Bible clearly tells us NOT to absorb into our faith elements
from other religions. I think, sir, that it is YOU who need some
education.
In Christ,
Nathan
Nathan,
Sorry if I've come off condescending. I'm tired of having to
address the same things over and over again. Especially, when
I've already written about them on this very website. And it's
hard to know whether it's even worth talking to people about it-
alternative medicine is quite polarized, just like Christianity...
Closed-Minded?
How many non-Christians do you know who reject Christ without
even really knowing Him or what he taught? It's the same with
Chinese medicine (CM). Do you really know what it is?
It's not clear to me whether you have read anything on ChristianAcupuncture.com
or not. Perhaps you just had a knee-jerk reaction to putting Christianity
and acupuncture together based on a misunderstanding of Chinese
medicine. If you were willing to read what
I've written, you might see how Chinese medicine is not essentially
new age, nor is it essentially religious.
Authentic Modern Chinese Medicine is Not Religious
Modern CM has departed from its native religions in the same
way that modern Western medicine departed from the four humors
- the communists saw to that after they took over in 1949... atheists,
you know.
Perhaps if you demonstrated that you've read my writings, and
disagreed with points within them, we might have a discussion.
Otherwise, I'll have to conclude that you aren't really willing
to talk to me about authentic Chinese medicine- like others, especially
those who have been into new age before and are defensive about
or afraid of it - perhaps you are seeing what you want to see.
Perhaps you are still fighting against the new age beliefs that
once ensnared you. As Paul says, idols have no true power. I don't
doubt that demons exist, though... not sure what to say about
that.
Occultic Patients are the Exception
I did once treat a man who told me he had "three Chinese
men inside of him"- He said he liked them- they kept him
from feeling lonely. I prayed silently over him that God would
use the Holy Spirit to remove them, and he said, "I don't
know what it is, but I feel like I'm fighting you." So I
gave up- I knew that from my perspective, he had what my pastor
would call 'demons onboard.' But he wasn't willing to let go of
them.
Medical Conditions are the Norm
That's the only weird thing so far. Mostly just physical and
emotional problems- pain, digestion, etc. But it's true that people
like this man are attracted to CM, for the same reason that some
Christians are suspicious of it - which is the way it's been portrayed
in English.
Controversy Within Christiandom
By the way, I'm not the only Christian who thinks acupuncture
is ok medicine- David Jeremiah, a famous preacher with the radio
show Turning Point, did a sermon on alternative medicines, and
acupuncture was one of the few he approved of, because of the
scientific evidence that supports it. Fact is, the only way most
Christians can accept Western medicine is via scientific validation.
Chinese medicine is also scientifically supported.
Skeptics Reacting to New Age Stories, not to Authentic Chinese
Medicine
I already have had a long dialogue with a former new-ager Christian,
and she was unwilling to admit that she might have been mis-appraised
of Chinese medicine. Since she was unwilling to learn about it,
she remained convinced that she was right- and in fact, she would
have been right, if what she thought about Chinese medicine had
been true. It's confusing, since new-agers have adopted acupuncture
and painted their own picture of it. If you read historian Paul
Unschuld, you'll see that the interpretation of qi as energy is
wishful thinking on the part of new agers, and not the authentic
meaning of the chinese character... for example.
Chinese Medicine Should Be Medical and Spiritually Neutral
One of my goals with this website is to begin to liberate Chinese
medicine from the exclusive control of new-agers, so that Christians
can feel comfortable benefitting from the medicine without having
to endure the influence of new-age or other religions.
I thought it might help to respond to the CRI article you sent
me, so here are my
comments with the article.
I agree with Elliot much more than the man he disagrees with (Klein).
Klein obviously represents the new-age view of acupuncture, which
is inaccurate. It was painful to pick through it, and it's frustrating
that many of the Amreican voices on this topic are new-agers.
Hope my responses help clear things up for you.
All the best,
B
I am glad you have been made to think about this, but I am
unconvinced by your answers, and it seems to me that you are uninformed
about the occult and its connections to eastern religions. I mean
no harm when I say that you seem quite naive. I don't have the
time or the inclination to debate with you further. Perhaps you
should contact CRI and perhaps they would dialogue with you further.
I simply pray for God to give you wisdom. Please forgive me for
speaking to you harshly earlier. That was not of God.
God bless you,
Nathan
Nathan,
Thanks for your input and opinions. I do value this interaction
with a pastor, especially one who made it safely out of new-age.
I am truly sorry for any emotional jabs or discomfort here- it's
obviously a charged issue for both of us. Regardless of your views,
I wish you all the best- continued growth in the Lord, and look
forward to meeting you in harmony in Heaven.
My Personal History With New Age, Chinese Medicine, and Christianity
Perhaps I was not emphatic enough that I am aware of the occult,
and of eastern religions. Before coming to a saving knowledge
of the Lord Jesus Christ, I was involved in Buddhist meditation,
tried to "manifest" my desires, and read quite a bit
on Taoism and Yoga. I even thought of many things in terms of
astrology. However, I never got involved in channeling, spiritism,
or any other contact with other beings- I always thought that
was quite weird.
And I am highly aware now of the verses in the Bible warning
us away from false religion. I got saved halfway through the 4
years of Chinese medical education. I learned all of that while
feeling surrounded by new-agers. So I am definitely aware of these
things, and the position of scripture on them. I even considered
whether I would have to leave CM- but after reading the Bible
and discussing it with my pastor, I concluded that the only reason
would be the peer pressure of other Christians who didn't know
what they were talking about.
It truly seems as if you have not read what I've written. I will
not be contacting CRI, except as a resource to help them revise
their statements. Remember Nathan, you wrote to me. You were the
one with the interest in the merging of Christianity and acupuncture.
I am writing to you to patiently explain in answer to your question,
not because I have doubts about it. I doubt that you have run
out of time- most likely, you have not achieved your goal of saving
someone who you imagined was in the same position you once were.
In that case, you never were truly interested in a scholarly or
truth-seeking way about this topic.
Summary: Chinese Medicine and Religion
To summarize- Yes, Chinese medicine grew up in a country where
they practiced Taoism, Buddhism, and ancestor worship. Yes, one
phase of Chinese medicine history included shamanic rituals. However,
the Chinese medicine of today is long divorced from that, especially
because of the influence of the Communists. Of course, there are
those who still combine eastern mysticism with Chinese medicine,
but that is optional. Chinese medicine uses many concepts foreign
to us- these have been mystified not only by Westerners, but also
by some Chinese who practiced other religions. However, that does
not mean that those concepts are essentially mystical. Chinese
medicine's contact with Western medicine has underscored the fact
that these concepts are merely metaphors, or shorthand, for bodily
activities and states. Many Chinese medicine doctors practice
medicine exclusively - I am one of these. Some merge that with
their new-age beliefs. I've warned these in my August
2003 Acupuncture Today column that they need to be sensitive
to their patients, and realize that these beliefs are optional,
and may offend or scare away many patients.
Thanks For Calling Me "Naive"
As for whether I am naive or not- that's not a nice thing to
be called. I looked it up, so I could answer your accusation rationally,
instead of emotionally.
Naive:
- "Lacking worldly experience and understanding, especially:
Simple and guileless; artless: a child with a naive charm."
Now isn't it Christian to be childlike? I am that way in my
love for the Lord and the scriptures. You probably weren't referring
to this one, though, because you definitely weren't complimenting
me.
- "Unsuspecting or credulous: “Students, often
bright but naive, bet and lose substantial sums of money on
sporting events” (Tim Layden)."
Ah, perhaps you mean I am not wary enough of the dangers. I
think again that you are projecting your own experience with
the occult onto my medical education and medical practice. As
I've said, Chinese medicine is not essentially religious or
spiritual. And I do not side with or associate with those who
see it that way, except to try to explain this to them as I
am to you. I am not exposed to occult experiences. In fact,
I am much more often exposed to Bible study, Church, and fellowship.
So long as a Christian is smart about staying in the Word and
in the Church, and does not attend pagan rituals, etc., I don't
see why they should go around fearing Satan. God has defeated
Satan for those of us who accept Jesus as Lord. The Holy Spirit
has sealed us. Perhaps you are still haunted personally by your
experiences- and have not been fully liberated from the repercussions.
It would be common in that situation for your fears to distort
your perception.
- "Showing or characterized by a lack of sophistication
and critical judgment: “this extravagance of metaphors,
with its naive bombast” (H.L. Mencken)."
I've attempted to categorize, to use history, to read scholars
on this topic, to apply my understanding of the scriptures from
reading and study. I have an inborn ability to classify, analyze,
etc. and spent 4 years getting a B.Ph. in Interdisciplinary
studies to learn to do that. I am by nature critical and in
any situation, I first identify risks to avoid - this comes
from years of fear that translated into the mental habit of
criticism. In fact, I have to work to go the other way, toward
compassion, and trust. So, I truly doubt that I have spared
a whit of critical judgement in this issue. I do not even feel
biased that it is currently my career. I have asked God over
and over to show me His will, even if it is some other career.
I am not loyal to Chinese medicine over Western medicine or
Christianity. In fact, I am considering further education in
both. I am about as impartial as one could be and still be educated
in authentic Chinese medicine.
So, no, I don't think I am naive. I must conclude that since
your statements continue to reflect the same ignorance of Chinese
medicine, that you have not read or considered my writing, and
that you do not truly want a dialogue on this issue. If, perhaps,
you had specified some point on which you disagreed, I might suspect
we just disagreed. But at this point, I believe you never entered
into the discussion. Perhaps you are too afraid to even think
about these issues.
I would suggest asking God in prayer to reveal the truth to you
about which things are occult, and which are not. Ask Him if you
have been fully healed from your previous experience with the
occult. Ask Him if you have honestly explored the issues I've
brought up.
I wish you all the best - safety, healing, wellness, and to be
in the center of God's will,
B
Yes Brian, I DID read what you had to say...but I found it
very unconvincing Qi and Prana are considered the same thing by
the majority of scholars and practitioners in eaatern religions.
The attached series of articles (excluded- some 40 pages of writings
cut from various webpages) from a variety of eastern sources indicates
that they are the same. They are considered actual forces--not
metaphors-- by the majority of practitioners and scholars.
Perhaps modern chinese doctors try to make a metaphor out
of these ancient systems, but that does not mean that there is
in fact nothing TO the ancient systems except mepaphor. Most of
the evangelical church until at least the early 60's thought that
"demon"s as described in the New Testament were just
"metaphors" for what we would call mental illness today.
Today most of the evangelical church and all of the Pentecostal
churches KNOW that demons are just as real today as in the first
century, and that our attempts to make them into a metaphor was
due to our ignorance of the subject.
Even if you were right and qi were just a metaphor, it certainly
has the "appearance" of the occult, as all the attached
articles will show. As Christians we are told to "flee"
from every appearance of evil. We are even warned not to make
a brother stumble because we are doing something he thinks is
wrong, even though we think we have the right to do it. I don't
know how you can escape that personally. But I am not your judge.
God is.
To summarize, I do not believe that qi or prana are metaphors.
I think they are descriptions of real occult forces. I have seen
occult practitioners do incredible things by--in their own descriptions--controlling,
manipulating, or changing their flow of prana. I have seen too
many people in deliverance because they got into these ideas.
And you are wrong to think that I have not considered your side
of the argument before.
I have a student who is a charismatic Christian and a naturopathic
doctor. She practices acupuncture and acupressure and I have discussed
the matter with her. I don't buy her ideas any more than yours.
N
Don't You Have Any Real Experts?
I've seen this kind of material before - these are not scholars..
New age people can say anything. You say a majority of scholars
think qi and prana are the same- which scholars? Who?
I have mentioned some scholars of Chinese Medicine to support
my points, but you'd rather quote just anyone with a website??
Just who qualifies as an expert in your mind?
I think you're determined to see it your way. As someone once
characterized it, "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind
is made up."
The Appearance of Evil
I'll look into the context of the 'appearance of evil' verse-
but I find it hard to believe that I'm supposed to not practice
a medicine just because of a large number of ignorant people.
Especially when I'm so upfront and on the web about my personal
beliefs. I'd imagine there is a precedent for this- perhaps science
was demonized after the Scopes trial- it may not have been easy
to be a scientist and a Christian at that time.
B
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